Temperatures, specialty grains, and enzymes in baking

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Temperatures, specialty grains, and enzymes in baking

Postby jeremy.pickett on Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:19 pm

Hello, this is my first post on the danlepard.com boards, and I'm really excited to talk with so many great bakers (at least the photos imply that you're great bakers :)

I posted a bunch of these images and ideas on another cooking forum, but haven't gotten a lot of feedback. Basically the idea that I've been exploring in the kitchen isn't new--how can you control simple sugar creation from complex carbohydrates (in this case flour) using temperature and PH. However I haven't found much literature talking about the specifics of using temperature and PH in baking. Reinhart talks a bit about it in the BBA, but that is in regards to retarding the dough for long periods of time to let either alpha amylayse or beta amylayse do their thing.

I've been thinking about the problem with a slightly different twist. As a home brewer, it is vital when making your wort (unfermented beer) to steep your grains in a certain amount of water, at a certain temperature and PH, for a specific amount of time. The reason for this is while the enzymes that convert complex sugars to simpler ones pretty much work all the time, they work much much better at specific temperatures.

For example, grains that mashed (i.e., steeped in water) at 140-149F encourage beta amylase to convert starches into sugars that are easily digestible to yeast, while temperatures above 150F favor alpha amylase which creates less fermentable.

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I suspect that the deeper color, slightly sweeter/nuttier taste that retarded dough usually has is due to enzymes breaking down the starch, but at a much slower pace than is optimal.

So, I've been pondering two questions:

1. Will you get an a good tasting increase in less complex sugars if you 'mash' a flour paste as higher temperatures
2. Will gluten suffer at higher temperatures, since enzymes that break down protein structures are also more active at higher temperatures

With that in mind, i started a couple of experiments. The first (which I'm not gonna go into much here, but it was a resounding success) was creating 'flour' from specialty grains used in beer making. It's easy, fun, and adds a fantastic flavor. The picture of the loaf I've been working with had two tablespoons of Black Patent flour added to it which is why it's so dark.

But the second experiment was taking a paste of white flour and water, and raising that to mashing temperatures (~140 F) for an hour and a half and observed the carbohydrate to sugar conversion. Because the temperatures you find making commercial flour destroys many of the enzymes needed for this to occur, I added a small amount of crushed pale malt to a flour/water paste I made.

Here is some of the pale malt I used to supply more enzymes to the flour:
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The pale malt, flour and water:
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Crushed malt separated into hull and flour (I only used the fine flour on the right):
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I only added the sifted flour on the right, and not the hulls on the left. It was about two tablespoons of flour in total, added to 200g of flour and 325g of water.

Then, the paste was heated to 140 F and left to sit at them temperature for 90 minutes. I saved some of the original in a small bowl at room temperature for taste and consistency comparison.

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It would probably be better to use a double boiler for gentler heat, but I was able to get the paste to 140 without any scorching or excessive gelatinization (which was my main fear). After 90 minutes, I had both me and my wife taste both (and I hadn't told her what I was doing).

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The difference between the two was eye opening. The higher temp radically changed the flavor of the paste compared to the sample I kept at room temp. It was much, much sweeter, had much less of the bland gritty taste of the original, and was the same consistency as the original.

At that point, I added 300g more flour, two tablespoons of the black patent flour I just created, 10g of salt, 5g of yeast, and a tablespoon of grapeseed oil (that's the green stuff in the pic, it tastes lovely in bread).

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I mixed for 5 minutes on medium and did a window pane test, which confirmed that the gluten development.

I then did a 90 minute bulk fermentation and a 60 minute proofing at 71F.

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After baking for 65 minutes at 400F, I pulled the loaf out and let it rest for an hour. I then sliced it open and started munching away.

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The crumb is tighter than I was aiming for, but it turned out quite tasty. You can really taste the black patent malt, with it adding a smoky, almost chocolaty flavor.

However, after this I'm still left with a some nagging questions, and this is why I am posting on this forum:

1. was the tight crumb due to gelatinization that occurred during the 'paste mash'?
2. did I actually alter the flavor in a pleasant way

i'm going to do a few more loaves here in the coming days, so if people are interesting i'll post photos of those as well. in the meantime, i would love to hear other peoples experience with, let's say, non traditional methods of dough making--specifically, what *not* to do :D

cheers, and happy wednesday!
Last edited by jeremy.pickett on Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Another loaf

Postby jeremy.pickett on Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:55 am

I made another loaf today and just pulled it out of the oven. I used:

* 200g of flour plus 325 grams of water, 'mashed' at 139F for 90 minutes
* 300g more flour, 11 grams kosher salt, 5 grams yeast, 1 tbsp grapeseed oil
* bulk fermentation for 90 minutes
* proofed for 100 minutes
* baked with steam initially at 475F, them lowered to 425 after twenty minutes. baked 65 minutes

It's still cooling, but here are a couple photos of the crust

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And a slightly different angle

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I'll post photos of the crumb shortly and my impression of the flavor. Tapping the bottom sounds like a resonant drum.

Cheers!
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Postby jeremy.pickett on Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:24 am

The crumb is light, airy, and open. The taste is subtly different, slightly sweeter, slightly nuttier.

Image

I wish I had a macro lens so I could get closer pics.
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Postby dougal on Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:07 am

Hi jeremy.pickett and welcome!

It always seems to be the case that with bread, when you change one thing, there are lots of different consequences!
And changing a couple of things makes it really hard to sort out what happened.

I think there are two interesting tracks you are following here
- pre-cooking flour before doughmaking and
- the use of ingredients that are common in brewing, but uncommon in baking

The second aspect is interesting of itself, but combined with the first may lead to some very unusual destinations!

I'm intrigued by the idea of using warmth in a batter to boost enzyme activity, before the yeast is turned loose (rather than using coolness to inhibit the yeast more than the enzymes). {Though I doubt that the acidity is anywhere close to to the pH's shown on the graph at the start of the thread.}
This sounds like a variation of Prof Calvel's "autolyse" technique. But the idea of that (in my understanding) is to promote gluten formation, in the absence of salt, yeast and acid. Not to boost enzyme activity.
And the crust on that white loaf above looks splendid - though not anywhere near as dark as I'd expect from a retarded dough.

I'm intrigued as to whether this enzymic-batter-sweetening might explain the scalding of Rye flour as mentioned recently
http://www.danlepard.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1763
and how it might relate to the extended keeping qualities mentioned by Dan in the recent Guardian recipe involving boiled flour
http://www.danlepard.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1743
ISTR Andrew Whitley lambasting enzyme additives to reduce staling - is it possible that the same mechanism (albeit 'naturally' induced) might be at work?
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Postby jeremy.pickett on Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:52 pm

well, there are a couple things i'd like to do--measure the PH and sugar content of a highly hydrated dough. Unfortunately the testing equipment I have just won't work for something as thick as flour and water, it's designed for liquids closer in viscosity to just water.

I was actually surprised at how red the crust got on that last boule. The crusts of my loaves generally look a tad anemic even when I do an overnight retard of the dough.
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Postby sean on Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:03 am

Wow you're definitely on to something, this is fascinating work and it's prompted me to get more clued-up on enzymes as I think I'm out of my depth!

I have heard that for his baguettes, parisian baker Jean-Pierre Cohier mixes the flour and water lightly then refrigerates it for a day before adding the salt and yeast - this must be giving the enzymes a chance to (slowly) convert the starches in the flour to sugar and must also be the reason why he won the "Grand prix de la baguette parisienne" in 2006...
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Postby Geof on Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:20 pm

Interesting experiment, Jeremy. As a brewer also I've had similar throughts about using grains but i'm particularly interested in experimenting with yeast, do you have any thoughts on this? I usually keep a large stock of different yeast strains in the fridge and I always wonder what it would be like using something like a German hefeweizen yeast or Saison yeast in dough, or even a lager yeast overnight in the fridge.
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Postby breadhead on Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:30 am

Keep it going Jeremy. Love it.
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Postby jeremy.pickett on Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:11 am

well, i'm cleaning up after my birthday party last night (woohoo, 30yrs old now:p), and hopefully in the coming days i'll have time to pick up some ph papers and maybe figure out how to measure starch conversion in dough. luckily baking bread is safer then what i did yesterday--almost burn down my house from a smoker that caught on fire . :shock:
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Postby jeremy.pickett on Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:09 am

So, I finally got a refractometer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refractometer) and have been conducting some scientifically un-rigorous experiments. Basically I've been trying to measure the effect of temperature and enzymes in regards to starch conversion into simpler sugars, with the aim to make loaves of bread taste better faster. Earlier in this thread I mentioned making a flour slurry and holding it at specific temperatures to encourage alpha/beta amalayse to convert starches in the flour to sugars we can taste.

What I did was to first open a bottle of wine and pour a glass for me and my wife. Secondly, I mixed two batches of 30g white flour and 60g room temp tap water. I used much more water than you would in bread baking since I doubt a refractometer can reliably read non liquid components, and I really just wanted at the moment to get a sense of scale as opposed to specific readings.

One of these samples was held at room temp, and the other was held in a 150F water bath. I took sugar readings every 20 minutes for 80 minutes. Unfortunately since my stove can't regulate temperatures that accurately, the temp of the sample with heat applied fell from it's ideal temp quite often, so starch to sugar conversion was likely less efficient than it could be. One other caveat is that unlike measuring grapes or other highly concentrated sugar samples, a refractometer used in this medium gave a much longer gradient. the numbers I use below are where the gradient start (to my eye), so again, the sugar conversion might have actually been much higher.

Heated sample at 150F
Initial measurement: 2 brix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brix)
20 minutes: 2 brix
40 minutes: 4 brix
60 minutes: 5 brix
80 minutes: 6 brix

Room temp sample
No discernible change at 80 minutes

Not only did the sugar content measurement of the warmer sample change according to the refractometer, I tasted the sample at every measurement and could definitely, absolutely taste a sweetening of the slurry. The one kept at 150 vs. room temp was night and day (and previously in other experiments, though not this one, my wife could easily tell the difference).

My next experiment will be retarding a slurry overnight, maybe two days in the fridge and observing what happens. My hypothesis is that sugar content will increase to similar levels, just at slower speeds.
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